Editors Dion Hughes and Sasha Wilson had the amazing opportunity to interview Professor Nuala Johnson, who was kind enough to find the time to allow this interview. Professor Johnson joined Queen's University Belfast in 1996 and retired earlier this year; she is a historical and political geographer and taught and influenced us all over the last few years.
In this interview, Dion and Sasha discuss Professor Johnson's career, her future plans, and any advice she would give to those embarking on their academic journey.
1. What were your initial impressions of Queen’s?
Professor Johnson: My first impression was that Queen’s was a very pretty campus, in a nice location within the city. The staff in Geography were very welcoming and overall it was a very positive experience.
2. How do you think Queen’s has changed since you first came, specifically within the Geography Department?
Professor Johnson: Every institution changes over time, and there have been a lot of changes since I first arrived in Belfast in 1996. At that time, I was the only female human geographer. The Department was also bigger, there was a larger cohort of undergraduate students, somewhere in the region of 200 students were undertaking a Geography degree. The structure of delivering the curriculum was also different. As well as day classes we also delivered evening classes, for those who were undertaking part-time degrees or coming to university through non-traditional routes. Over the years, fewer men have been taking undergraduate Geography degrees and the discipline is becoming more feminised.
During my tenure there have been many staff changes as colleagues retired or left for other universities. The Geography Department, however, has always had a strong intellectual tradition in Historical Geography, dating back to the founding of the Department by Professor Estyn Evans in the 1920s. One of the great attractions of coming to Queen’s in the 1990s was this excellence in historical research and teaching. Steve Royle, Lindsay Proudfoot, and David Livingstone were all on the staff when I arrived and were carrying out world-class research in this field. Additionally, Queen’s also had a very strong reputation in Political Geography, my other main research area. Fred Boal, for instance, had an international reputation in analysing the geographies of divided cities. This strong emphasis in political and historical geography has continued over the years, with many additional staff joining the Department since my arrival. This new generation of scholars are continuing the trajectory of research excellence in these areas.
3. After becoming increasingly popular during the 1990s, how do you think feminist geographies have developed over your academic career?
Dion: I think it’s quite serendipitous also that today [8 March 2021] marks International Women’s Day
Professor Johnson: I think that feminist approaches to geography have moved forward in leaps and bounds over the past thirty years. When I was an undergraduate student, at University College Dublin in the 1980s, where I undertook a joint degree in Geography and Politics, there was very little, perhaps no, feminist geography taught within my undergraduate programme. There were also very few female academic staff, so it is perhaps unsurprising that there was little content related to feminist themes. In Politics my experience was different. There were more women teaching politics and they included in their classes themes that related to gender theory and practice.
That was quite different, of course, to how things are today in most Geography degree courses. I completed my PhD in 1990 at Syracuse University, New York. The programme was very much interdisciplinary in approach, so in addition to attending seminars in Geography I also undertook several modules in American and British History, Symbolic Anthropology, History of Science where I was introduced to feminist approaches to these subjects. This was exciting new material for me to engage with and provided a foundation for my own intellectual development as an academic and feminist. My first academic post, which was a one-year position, was at Loughborough University in the East Midlands and there were already some women teaching feminist approaches to development geography there. I used this as an opportunity to introduce gender related themes as I developed my own modules on landscape interpretation and the history of geographical ideas. When, in 1991, I moved to my first permanent academic post at University College London in Bloomsbury, I encountered a new group of colleagues in cultural, political, social and environmental geographies who were all integrating issues of gender into their research and their teaching. These men and women provided great inspiration to me and acted as important role models for my own development as a young academic. Landmark publications, by established female geographers such as Doreen Massey and Linda McDowell, who were a generation before me, provided the impetus for a new generation of geographers to publish, textbooks, monographs and journal articles from feminist perspectives. The journal Gender, Place and Culture, for instance, first began publication in 1994 and provided a welcome outlet for this type of research. Gradually, over time, we have witnessed the integration of gender approaches into virtually all aspects of human geography from demography to electoral geography and from the study of cities to geopolitics. We have also seen a welcome increase in the number of female academics employed in Higher Education Institutions, thus making women literally more visible in the discipline. These trends, I think, gathered pace in the 1990s and have continued into the twenty-first century. As a result we have a rich body of research by feminist geographers, upon which to draw in both our teaching and research. Now, while I welcome all these positive changes, there is still a considerable distance to go to achieve gender equality in higher education institutions, in the curriculum and across our wider society.
Dion: I think this would also be relevant, third wave feminism gathered momentum during the 1990s. Do you think this had any impact on feminist geographies?
Professor Johnson: Indeed, I think it did. Initially much feminist geography, at least in the West, was Eurocentric in focus, addressing primarily the challenges that white women faced economically, culturally, socially, politically, and in terms of the body, in the wealthier, developed parts of the globe. Questions of class, ethnicity, sexuality and race were of secondary importance. Third wave feminism began to challenge some of these assumptions and highlight how the inequalities that women faced in different regions of the globe, or in different parts of states or cities, intersected with their position in terms of social class or sexual orientation for example. Different issues could be at stake if one was living in the developing world, say, where basic needs such as water supply, literacy levels, access to medicine or schooling, were more pressing than some of the concerns being addressed by feminists in the developed North. Third wave feminism, therefore, began to directly examine the ways in which women of colour, poorer women, or women living under different political regimes, might experience the world and, and ultimately how gender inequality had its own geographies. In other words, the experience of white, female, well-educated, middle-class professional women living in prosperous economies might be quite different to the experience of people of colour living in the developing world, where economic and social disadvantage might be much greater. In answer to your question, then, I think third wave feminism highlighted these issues, and for those of us trained in geography became an opportunity to critically examine the causes and consequences of the spatial or geographical variations in women's experience of inequality across our globe. Our theories and explanations had to be robust and agile enough to recognize and acknowledge that the world is not a homogenous, isotropic plain, as it were. New York, Mumbai, Capetown or Connemara, Patagonia, Kerala really are different material and ideological spaces, and the geographies of everyday life, from a feminist perspective, are shaped by the particularities of these particular places.
4. As the first woman human geography professor in Queen’s how do you think this affected the gender balance in the department?
Professor Johnson: Yes, I’m very proud, at one level, that I was the first female Professor of Geography at QUB. So I guess I represented a 100% improvement on what went before! On the other hand, it must be said that it was, perhaps, a little disappointing that it took so long for a woman in Geography at Queen’s to be promoted to this level of academic distinction. I am happy to say that two more women, Jenny McKinley and Helen Roe, have since been awarded Chairs. I am hopeful that this trend towards achieving a gender balance in the career structure of universities will continue, and, if I played any small role in providing younger female geographers with the motivation that they too can be recognised and rewarded for their contributions to research and teaching, all to the better.
5. What inspired your early work on nationalism, monuments and gender?
Professor Johnson: Well this arose initially out of my doctoral dissertation. As a graduate student in Syracuse I became interested in nationalism partly as a result of the guidance of my wonderful supervisor and expert in the field, John Agnew, and partly, I guess, from growing up in Ireland, where the ‘national question’ seemed to be still unresolved. Influenced by the writing of the Italian Marxist, Antonia Gramsci, my thesis had been concerned with how nationhood is imagined and materialized among the general population rather than among elites. Using a Gramscian framework that focused on ‘organic intellectuals’ I examined how education policy in Ireland in the years leading up to independence and afterwards framed popular understandings of nationhood. I was especially interested in how the Irish language, as a marker of cultural identity, was embedded in the educational system and imagined through the representation of the west of Ireland as the symbolic cradle of Irish identity.
After completing this research I started to develop new projects and the main one that emerged was investigating how the iconography of nationalism is embedded in landscape and, in particular, on the spatial and symbolic language of public monuments.Two books, (by the way, neither of which were written by geographers), had a major impact on my thinking. One was by the marvelous feminist thinker, Marina Warner, who wrote Monuments and Maidens: The Allegory of the Female Form (1985), a fascinating exploration of the symbolic role of women in public statuary. The other was by the cultural historian, Carl Schorske, Fin-de-Siecle Vienna (1979) where he examined the physical and ideological transformation of turn-of-the-century Vienna through its built landscape and artistic representation. Both those books influenced my conceptual approach and I became interested in examining the geographies of public monuments in Ireland. When I began this work geographers had written virtually nothing on this theme, yet our landscape is awash with public statues, mainly dedicated to men. My initial work was on the centenary of the 1798 rebellion where I investigated the debates surrounding the creation of a landscape of remembrance to those who had engaged in that rebellion, and the gendered nature of the iconography that emerged. This led me to carry out a major study on how the First World War was remembered in Ireland and culminated in my Cambridge University Press monograph Ireland, the Great War and the Geography of Remembrance (Figure 1), published in 2003. In this research I sought to challenge a historiography that characterised Irish public commemoration of the First World War as an exercise in collective amnesia, and to highlight the spatial dynamics undergirding acts of remembrance through parade, monument and landscape.
6. As a geographer who studies nationalism, how did you view the NI peace process?
Professor Johnson: As a geographer and woman born on this island, the NI Peace Process was a very welcome development – a movement away from the violence and conflict that preceded it. Of course, all peace processes are compromises by their very nature. They involve the coming together of people - who have different interpretations of their place in society and different readings of the past - in a spirit of reconciliation and mutual respect. As the name implies this is on-going process. For a student of nationalism, Northern Ireland is often regarded as an exemplar of how to develop mechanisms to achieve peace, and is widely analysed in the academic literature as a model for conflict resolution.
7. Can you tell us about your membership of the Royal Irish Academy? How did you become a member and what does it involve?
[Editor's note: “The Royal Irish Academy/Acadamh Ríoga na hÉireann champions research. We identify and recognise Ireland’s world class researchers. We support scholarship and promote awareness of how science and the humanities enrich our lives and benefit society. We believe that good research needs to be promoted, sustained and communicated. The Academy is run by a Council of its members. Membership is by election and considered the highest academic honour in Ireland”. Royal Irish Academy Website - https://www.ria.ie/about]
Professor Johnson: The Royal Irish Academy is one of Ireland’s premier learned societies. It was founded in 1785 and granted a royal charter in 1786. It's an all-Ireland Academy, equivalent to the Royal Society (Science), British Academy (Arts and Social Sciences) and the Royal Society of Edinburgh in the UK. It was a huge personal honour to be elected to membership in 2014 and to have one’s research held in such high esteem. It carries with it the title Member of the Royal Irish Academy (MRIA). As a Member I serve on a number of the Academy’s committees: the Geoscience and Geographical Sciences Committee of which I am Vice-Chair, the Diversity Committee and the North-South committee. Each committee has a different remit and provides one with the opportunity to shape and promote the Academy’s policies and practices.
8. If you were a PhD student or early career academic today, how might your research interests, methodologies, or interpretive theories have been different?
Professor Johnson: Oh yes, I think some of the approaches I might adopt today are different to those that I employed when I started my academic career. Obviously, scholarship has advanced since I began my PhD in 1985. My intellectual interests, of course, have also changed over time. I’m currently working much more on the historical geographies of science, while still maintaining my interests in public monuments, nationalism and identity. For instance, in 2011, I published a monograph Nature Displaced, Nature Displayed: Order and Beauty in Botanical Gardens (Figure 2) where I carried out an examination of how three different botanic gardens developed and represented the globe’s biogeography within the space of their gardens. This comparative study focused on the gardens in Belfast, Dublin and Cambridge, and a central theme rotated around the relationships between science and beauty in the design of these scientific venues.
I am currently working on a book on a female botanical artist, plant-hunter and explorer who lived in Burma for 24 years (1897-1921). Her name is Charlotte Wheeler-Cuffe, and she moved to Burma with her husband who served as an engineer of the British empire in colonial Burma. Drawing on feminist and postcolonial theory I hope to unravel the hidden histories of an important, but under-studied figure, and investigate the complex linkages between gender, empire and natural history in the early twentieth century. The monograph is to be published in 2022. So if I was starting a PhD today, maybe that would be my topic!
As a geographer who has mainly focused on historical subjects my methodology has involved the interrogation and interpretation of historical documents – textual and visual. This has not really changed over my career. It is the interpretive lens in which to make sense of these types of source material that can change over time, as new theoretical perspectives are advanced and fresh empirical data becomes available.
9. What advice would you give to students hoping to pursue an academic career?
Professor Johnson: I thoroughly enjoyed doing my PhD. Now I studied abroad; I went to the United States and spent five years there, which was a hugely rewarding experience. I met a lot of wonderful people from a variety of different places and cultures, and this experience as a graduate student provided a strong foundational network for my future career. The long, snowy winters of upstate New York also tested my endurance and resilience!
For students thinking of doing doctoral work today, my advice would be to think long and hard about a project that's really going to capture your imagination for a sustained period of time. You will be undertaking this project for 3-4 years, so it is important that the topic is sufficiently fascinating to maintain your engagement, and sustain you through the occasions when you’ll wonder “Gosh, why did I decide to do this”! But I also think that it's important to keep an open mind to other areas of research that are not related specifically to your own topic. Developing a wide set of interests outside of your own specialism will be important for developing new research projects and preparing you for a life-time of teaching. Read widely, critically and generously. As a graduate student I got plenty of opportunity to teach undergraduate classes in Syracuse and this practical experience was invaluable in securing a job. So I would suggest that you take any opportunities to conduct some teaching while completing your PhD. Of course planning and getting some papers published as you complete your PhD or immediately afterwards is also critical. Attend conferences, present papers and avail of opportunities to meet other scholars working in your general field. The academic job market is competitive now, but it has always been competitive. Remember there are other types of research posts that lie outside of higher education that can also be exciting, rewarding and challenging.
10. Looking forward, you have told us you’re writing a book; but do you have anything else you’re looking forward to now that you are no longer teaching?
Professor Johnson: The most thing I’m looking forward to, in the immediate future, is Covid being over and getting to spend time with my family and friends in Dublin. At the moment I am devoted to writing my book, and this is where my academic attention is focused. I also will continue to work on committees within the Royal Irish Academy. I am an External Examiner for the Geography undergraduate degree programme at NUIG in Galway and I will continue that role until my tour of duty is over. Beyond that, I am a very keen gardener and this activity will continue to give me endless pleasure. I’m also an enthusiastic cyclist, walker, birdwatcher and traveller, and I have, recently, taken up botanical drawing. Having the time and space to pursue these interests with vigour and energy will, I think, be a source of continual joy and happiness.
Dion & Sasha: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today, we really appreciate it and wish you all the best with your future endeavours!
We at Graticule would like to again extend our thanks to Professor Johnson for her time and echo Dion and Sasha's best wishes for her future projects!
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